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Wavering: the beginning

A few points to clarify before moving on with this “Wavering” series (the name works well enough):

1. If it seems like I’m “attacking” Christianity, that’s because I am. My natural bias is towards Christianity, since it’s been part of my life so long. There’s much less of a reason to try to find information to support what I’d prefer to be true as compared to trying to find the weaknesses what what I believe and see if it holds up.

2. I’m not trying to look “scholarly” or “intelligent”, although that may be a side effect. I want to be right. If Christianity is a reasonable viewpoint, I want to know that. If Christianity is a superstition, I will abandon it.

3. One principle that I will follow goes something like this: if there are multiple explanations for an event, the explanations that fit the data are more likely to be true than ones that try to explain inconvenient data away. It was put more elegantly by the original source, which was, ironically, a creationist website. (For future reference, I’ll call this the Data Conveniency Principle, although probably someone already has a better name for it!)

4. Ideas, contributions, responses not only welcome, but desired.

Let’s start at the beginning:

Creation account: Even most non-Christians are familiar with this one, where God created the Earth and its habitants in six days. Furthermore, based on the geneology presented in the Bible, the age of the Earth would be measured in thousands or tens of thousands of years. There’s some ambiguity because ancient genealogies did not necessarily cover every single person in the line, but it would be difficult to get even 100,000 years.

The scientific community believes the Earth to be 5 billion years old, and early humans to be 1-3 million years old.

Clearly, someone’s wrong.

As awful as this will sound to some of you, I’m going with the scientists on this one. (Note to random visitors: mostly friends and family read this, and it’s 75-80% Christian.)

Remember that the point of this exercise is to determine how viable the Bible is, from the standpoint of the Bible may or may not be true. If it’s “Here are the measurements that we’ve taken, how we did it, and we can reproduce it for you” versus “Here’s revealed truth from thousands of years ago, but you have to take it on faith”, I’m going with the first.

Some Christians have proposed that the six days actually represent eons of time to put the Bible in line with science. This rubs up against our recently christened Data Conveniency Principle. Furthermore, the language of the passage seems to clearly indicate six literal days (“the evening and the morning were the first day”).

It could be argued that the creation passage was written to demonstrate God’s power, and not to provide an exact account of Earth’s origins. However, the language seems more like a history, and other Biblical characters who reference it seem to take it as a literal account.

I’ve also heard a few say there is a conspiracy in the scientific community to discredit the Bible. This is paranoia.

That’s all for now; I’m losing my train of thought. Touching the subject evolution proper is redundant.

June 10th, 2007 13 comments
Posted by Donnie Filed under Religion

  1. annie posted the following on 10 June 2007 at 1:32 pm.

    this goes back to cherry picking the Bible and God making sense. Even the most devout Christian will admit that there are some things in the Bible that probably shouldn’t as much attention as others. God. Makes. Sense. Even if our tiny little brains can’t comprehend His plans, He makes sense.

    As for Creation or evolution, no one was there for either event, but as you have astutely declared, there are baskets and baskets of evidence for the latter and barely a wisp of proof for the former.

    Is God real? Yes. Of that I am sure. Is Christianity a superstition? I’m truly disturbed by this question because the answer is very possibly a “yes”.

        Reply to annie
  2. brad posted the following on 10 June 2007 at 3:01 pm.

    There have been baskets and baskets of truth for both sides. I have come down to understand that the debate separates my brain from logic and emotion. On the logic side, when I think or try to understand the scientific point of view, it makes sense to me. When I chose to have faith and believe in the Bible it is an emotional choice where you have to blind logic and “thinking outside of the box”. I think I may be a little farther in the scientific direction than you donnie, but I enjoy the way you are able to communicate it.

        Reply to brad
  3. annie posted the following on 10 June 2007 at 4:35 pm.

    I should have said “barely a straw of proof” not a wisp. now it doesn’t match the basket statement. stupid emotional typing.

        Reply to annie
  4. God's servant posted the following on 19 June 2007 at 6:05 pm.

    I don’t know what you are talking about. I think it makes soooo much more sense to believe the Bible. God made you so he could certainly create the universe in six days. If God didn’t create us or the universe who or what did? Evolution is a theory. If matter did form and explod, where did that matter come from? etc. If you think you have something let me know.

        Reply to God's servant
  5. none posted the following on 21 June 2007 at 3:16 pm.

    God’s servant: Some say that matter formed from bacteria, which formed after several million years, but I don’t think that makes any more sense.

        Reply to none
  6. Donnie Briggs posted the following on 21 June 2007 at 6:54 pm.

    I debated mentioning the “e-word”, and should never have done it. It takes away from the simpler “age of the earth” question which cuts much more quickly to the heart of the matter.

        Reply to Donnie Briggs
  7. none posted the following on 22 June 2007 at 11:27 pm.

    Donnie: What is the “heart of the matter?” Whether to believe (or not believe) the contents of the Bible or you questioning the Bible? If the “e-word” and the “age of the earth” thing is the same, why are you afraid of the “e-word”?

        Reply to none
  8. Donnie Briggs posted the following on 22 June 2007 at 11:58 pm.

    I’m not afraid of the “e-word”. It’s just that discussing evolution vs. creation opens a can of worms that obscures the idea I was trying to get across.

    Limiting the discussion to the Earth’s age simplifies the thought. Modern science says the Earth is billions of years old. The Bible indicates a far younger Earth. They can’t both be right.

        Reply to Donnie Briggs
  9. none posted the following on 24 June 2007 at 9:33 pm.

    There are two theories I would like to bring to your attention on the age of the earth. Both are scientific and support the Christian’s view.
    1. The Carbon 14 test. Everything living has Carbon 14 in it. Scientists have discovered through fossiles, rocks, and tools that there is more Carbon today than ever. Scientists figured through several different aged fossils the rate at which Carbon 14 is increasing and figured how long ago there was none. Guess?

    2. The salt test. Everything on earth has salt in it. As the Carbon 14 there is more salt today, in our oceans especially. They used different tools to figure out how much the salt has been increasing over the last several decades. Then they figured out how long ago all the bodies of water on earth were freshwater. Guess? (Hint: The rains wash the salts from the earth into the waters. So when was the first time it rained?)

        Reply to none
  10. Donnie Briggs posted the following on 25 June 2007 at 11:18 pm.

    Interesting. You remind me of me from 13 years ago.

    I promise to give a more complete answer later. In the meantime, I would direct you to this site which claims to refute multiple young earth arguments.

    This is not to say I automatically believe that site and reject what you have to say. I will take a close look at both sides of the argument.

        Reply to Donnie Briggs
  11. none posted the following on 26 June 2007 at 6:06 pm.

    Thank you. I appreciate your willingness to dig into both sides. I looked at the website and found very little to contadict what I said about the “salt” theory and nothing about the “Carbon 14″ theory. You will have an interesting search, have fun.

        Reply to none
  12. none posted the following on 4 July 2007 at 8:06 pm.

    Still waiting Donnie.

        Reply to none
  13. Donnie Briggs posted the following on 4 July 2007 at 9:31 pm.

    Sorry. Where did you get your information? I can’t find the sources which give the arguments you mentioned.

        Reply to Donnie Briggs

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